I guess what I am saying is that people like Linda - and yes, even Tex - may be victims of their own bad wiring, NOT to the point of excusing what they have donebut certainly warranting more thought than just slapping the bad or evil tag on them. [Her statement obviously threw Bugliosi]A. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE8_N-eBm_4Bill Clinton in London during 'Nam was a CIA plant who spied on the Anti-war protesters. Like the silly hitchhiking story about Wilson, I now wonder if her account of meeting with the Spahn circle wasn't another white wash. St Circumstance saidThe "They had really bad backgrounds and nowhere else to turn" sympathy is appropriate in cases like.It's paradoxical. Now DailyMail.com can exclusively disclose that Linda Kasabian, 68, is living in a modest apartment complex in Tacoma, Washington, not far from the home of her daughter Quanu, 45. She does go on to say that it was because she did not want to face the whole thing while pregnant, but still, she knew she was pregnant when she told her husband, Joe Sage and Jeffrey Jacobs.The intention of testifying I guess only becomes a hot issue after the indictments and at that point, is it really unusual for there to have been some uncertainty on her part as to what she was going to do ?Look at the words Mr. Fleischman uses- I see him convincing her she needed to be a prosecution witnessThat was interesting. Linda got her justice in another manner that's all lolThe real Losers in the entire saga are the victims and their families. If it took Clem 2 years to clear the drug residue from his head and Susan 5 years to be thinking clearly and Gypsy a decade to free her mind of Charlie & Spahn and if Brooks can say Charlie had a vice grip on his mind and if Tex can admit that he ran away then came back, then ran away finally then still made his way back, was somehow drawn back, then you can see that young people aged 20~23 weren't going to suddenly switch back to pre~rebel thinking and self preservation and put it all on Tex when he was part of the Family. Dreath saidI think there is a tendency to look at Kasabian's involvement through the lens provided by what we know (or believe or have been told to believe ) from where we sit todayThere's a lot of truth in that. [Off course he goes adding a third objection. And there are events that logically it seems she had to see that she says she didn't. I did not mean to offend and apoligise if I did.You said: Do you mean by the jury ?Do you feel Judge Older was somewhat derelict in his duty by letting so many leading questions go through ?You know I swore I wasnt going to do this. ]MR.KANAREK: He is arguing with the witness, your Honor. Testifying before the jury that it was all them and Charlie had nothing to do with it isn't exactly the best way to demonstrate the prosecutor was wrong. Pat didn't know {she's said that several times} and as far back as '69, even before the Grand jury, Susan said in an interview with Richard Caballero, "We were instructed to go to this particular house. The TLB story, maybe above all others, is NOT a black/white or good/bad story. As soon as Atkins testifies Bugliosi has a pretty good case against Kasabian. I know people are going to scream at my saying the TLB story is not a 'good/bad' one because it is just to easy to tell the good guys from the bad. Linda Kasabian was born Linda Drouin on June 21, 1949 in Biddeford, Maine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions including ones that don't jibe with mine. It certainly wasn't even a consideration when she gives her own point of view on why she recanted.All 5 Tate/LaBianca killers, when apart from Charlie told others he'd orchestrated the murders. The idea of Charles Manson symbolizing evil is daft to me ~ even though I think he is guilty of what he was convicted for. 'show the blacks how its done' + (3.) With a father like Dean who was hitting on girls his teenage daughter hung out with, and did drugs with his own underage kid, or Diane Lake whose parents live a similar lifestyle and literally give her their permission to run around with any group of older people she wants- I do feel sympathy. I thought this one was DebS !Your posts are generally good thought provokers. I didn't perceive you as the problem. We can listen to Schrek and George and the others who came later claiming to have talked to everyone around the actual killers.Or we can listen to the animals who actually did it?????? The charges against her were dropped when she agreed to attend a drug counselling session. She felt that he understood her when he said that she had a father hang-up. AND isn't it about time (over 40 years) for the WHOLE truth and nothing but the TRUTH to leak out from the CRACKS in man's so-called civilization. Do I give weight to what anyone says after they were convicted: Not much. Here is a fact: Krenwinkel never said the motive was Helter Skelter. There are several occasions where he brings out testimony he doesn't need for a conviction just to make her look good. Linda married again, this time to a hippie named Robert Kasabian. My number was never called. I gotta say I lean to the Saint here. But it's slippery ground to go with either, if you want to keep Charlie out of all this. There were bits that really made her look cheap, like when it was brought out that Joe Sage helped her out with money and Gary Fleischman's name because he wanted her to be his doxy..and she obliged ! "Oh yes, Mr Pritchard has been convicted in the past of robbing banks, but he lives at home and looks after his elderly and disabled Mother and his wayward sister's troubled child..". You believe she was largely an accurate witness. Incidentally, it has been well established {by Bugliosi, in his book, well after the trials when there was nothing to gain} that it was Gary Fleishman that pushed for immunity, not Linda Kasabian. Lets say Charlie did orchestrate the crimes and he had some private or secret motivation only a very few were aware of. I try to do that. Eventually, Linda moved to Boston where she married a man named Robert Kasabian. Charles Manson and the Killing of Shorty Shea, Charles Manson Behind Bars: The Crazy Antics and Amazing Revelations Of America's Icon of Evil, Charles Manson: The Man Who Killed the 60s, Charles Manson. Sanctimonious, elitist narcissist is more like it. Excellent work by Dreath here. That is just an elementary interpretation that most will have.But now, nearly fifty years later, allot of folk want to cut the girls a bit of slack - primarily because they all seem(ed) to have repented and become what most would call "nice people".But you don't find many, if any, willing to cut the two Charles any slack. She chose to be the way she was and then she eventually became the same kind of parent that Diane and Ruth had.So Sad. I hope I do that. Dreath saidAt what price, my friend? He wants Rudy Weber and the hose at 1:00 but most of all he wants Tim Ireland's description of the scream before 1:00. AustinAnn74 earlier pointed out, regarding Linda, What if she wouldn't have testified? Equally, the idea of Linda as the heroine of the hour is daft to me even though I think she did the right and good thing by testifying. Did both sides not do that quite a lot though ? Over time, she has been depicted by numerous actresses in different movies. The getaway driver that Tex laid into for starting the car, whom he didn't let drive.Linda doesn't sound so willing, really. Linda least of all- the only price she paid at all was karma. The next night, she again drove the family including the previous night members as well as Charles Manson, Leslie Van Houten and Steve Grogan to the house of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca, rich owners of a grocery store chain. Indeed, Tex has cleared Susan of stabbing Sharon Tate, while Pat cleared up the mystery of who carved WAR on Leno LaBianca and Tex has subsequently revealed he coerced Leslie into doing "something" {which is not to in any way diminish her responsibility}.But nothing regarding Linda, except the penalty phase debacle which all the main players have since admitted was lies and rubbish. Period. He reinforced it was alright to act on the dangerous impulses this particular assortment of people had. This marriage too did not prove to be stable and Linda Kasabian returned to stay with her mother in New Hampshire. She chose to be the way she wasBut not in a vacuum. That's because sometimes, my thoughts on part of something that someone has said aren't formulated at the moment that I'm answering but other things that have been said have sparked off my train of thought or brought up an answer or a question.Other times, I'll need to do a bit of research so an answer won't be forthcoming straight away.Other times, just in general thought, I might have a sudden insight on something someone has said because I've been thinking about it; but that might be days later.I hope that's what you mean. Dreath saidGrim, I have to disagree with you a bitOnly a bit ? She did not participate, but was the driver of the vehicle that took them to and from the murder sites. They have all said that. In my opinion then and only then does the 'immunity' award begin to raise doubts in the minds of the jurors regarding her credibility. With all the mania going on, Susan's statement of "everything we did from the time he cut the poles to the time we got back to the ranch was spontaneous. In March of 1970, Kasabian gave birth to a baby boy, which she named Angel. Linda Kasabian After two failed marriages and the birth of her daughter Tanya, Kasabian joined Manson's commune at Spahn Ranch in July 1969. You can correct me on that one. I haven't been back to this thread in a couple of weeks. But wait a minute Grim, Atkins never mentions this event to the Grand Jury, not a word. :-), "When they go low- I get high"or something like that lol. Manson's Lost Girls: Directed by Leslie Libman. She was the angel in a group of murderous devilsWhen it came to killing, she was, different. Two people had spread that around long before Linda herself was even arrested. Dreath saidI think what might have happened with Atkins instead of Kasabian is you might not be talking as much about Helter Skelter as a motivePossibly. Life With The Manson Family Los Angeles Public Library The Manson compound on Spahn Ranch. Robert, Robert, Robert, I'm really confused. [STOP right here! Before Tate-LaBianca She attended Milford High School in Milford, New Hampshire in 1964 and 1965. fn. Those failed strategies are ineffective in bringing about change. According to cielodrive.com, Linda and Robert lived together for three months, however, they divorced when she was 17 years old. Thank you for this post- very interesting and thought provoking. The term Helter Skelter was taken from the Beatles White Album song of the same name. Millie McCormack. As for the night of LaBianca, it's so shrouded in mystery and there are so many questions that I am not exactly sure what his role was. (One) - wallet - brown plastic with misc. Mind you, what she told Marvin Part was nuclear ! She said on that tape she wasn't afraid of getting busted because what she did was right and had to be done. He was a talented musician and her initial days at the ranch were filled with LSD, music, stories, dancing around and orgies. This comment has been removed by the author. Some people are just wired differently and motivated by different things. That is o.k. Funny how his client shortly after turned out to be the best evidence against him. St Circumstance saidThey have a need for HS to be wrong. I gotta disagree with you on that one. I'll stop now. I'm not saying the 'Linda kites in Charlie speak' didn't happen, just that I don't believe that had anything to do with Susan recanting. About the license, it had to be expired. I think after I began to beleive it was extraordinarily difficult to connect Tate and LaBianca on any other theory you are sort of left with HS or something like it. I do not think that Charles Manson masterminded or ordered the Tate-LaBianca murders. Everything he did was part of a plan to wage a horrible warDon't get me wrong, I'm not a 3rd Reich admirer or apologist. Now you seem to be hating on John McCain who enlisted, was shot down, and tortured at the Hanoi Hilton. But telling Charlie "You drive" and "I'm not you Charlie" was OK? Linda Kasabian, born in Biddeford, Maine on June 21, 1949, is a former member of the Charles Manson Family. It came up from a variety of sources, some of whom weren't even in the Family. So I suspect that IF the TATE / LaBianca massacre took place today, they would be filling the ambulances with cops who got nauseated and pass-out. Even her Mum acknowledged that.Don't waste your tears for Linda and LeslieI'm a human being, St. said the leader of some long-hairs - and that's how dangerous DRUGS can be. Manson Mythos saidWhile the attorneys dropped the defense on the ground's they didn't want their clients to commit suicide, Fitzgerald at least voiced the opinion it would have been suicide for Manson as well, as it would have only proven Bugliosi's case rightWhere does he say that and how would it prove suicide for Charlie ? But Bugliosi it appears killed two birds with one stone. Remember, Al Springer testified that he liked Tex most of all in the Family. Both accused of being racists who will spark a race war. Her testimony eventually led to their conviction. Pat, in Guinn's book, presents herself as not wanting the murders to happen, going so far as to say that the following night at Waverley, before anthing happened with Rosemary, she prayed to God, asking him to make the murders stop and since she went ahead and exercised her own free will in participating in carnage and mutilation and God didn't strike her down and stop her, Leslie or Tex, she's not believed in God since that night.And she has a problem with Linda presenting herself as not being a willing participant.As a side issue, if Linda hadn't been at the car when they arrived at it after Cielo's action, would they have just driven off and left her ? As opposite the teachings of Christ as one can get.Is Linda a good person? Linda took the witness stand in a series of trials and retrials. Combat deaths were over represented by those white troops from the southern states. Look at what Malcolm X had said and look at what the Black Panthers are saying in 1969. Debra Tate Disgraces the Words Victims' Advocate, Manson Blog Reveals True Identity and Fate of Ruby Pearl. She clearly loved her children and tried to be a good mother. Its Ok to see things differently Grim.You make alot of eloquent points bud. She married, divorced, remarried, and gave birth to a daughter in 1968. And I find it hard to believe that Bugliosi was so stupid as to not check either, knowing that his case would be seriously compromised if it came out that LK had no valid licence.Incidentally, it was Bugliosi and Bugliosi alone that speculated that the the only reason Linda was along both those nights was because she was the only one left with a valid driving licence, being that Mary was in the clink. Linda explained what had happened, and said that she couldn't have brought Tanya because it would've looked too suspicious. AND the Donald Trump (avoiding the Vietnam WAR) issue is the perfect subject to begin the discussion.IT should lead us directly to LBJ (a loving father to HIS children and a Natural Born KILLER to many of us). I agree with your comment about multiple angles. Not only that, they all happened to be dramatic and under the surfaces lurks alternative and more reasonable possibilities.For example: Bugliosi had a problem. A British rock band is named after her too. She spent her whole life getting into trouble. I am not heartless. Credible doesn't always equal reliable and vice versa. There is no online registration for the intro class Terms of usage & Conditions But what happened before and after that. With Mackenzie Mauzy, Eden Brolin, Grace Victoria Cox, Greer Grammer. I try not to view life in a binary way. Mary Brunner: DL# S420794Bruce Davis: DL# 3553216 (Tennessee)Lynette Fromme DL# S145574Linda Kasabian no license is mentioned.Diane Lake DL# 3507331 (temp)Kathern Lutesinger DL# P148000 (Missouri)Charles Manson DL# 2516372Charles Montgomery (aka Watson) DL# A162088Nancy Pitman DL# S4679845 (temp)Leslie Van Houten DL# DD436893 (temp)It only matters in my opinion because it explains why she was chosen. Its been awhile but I think I recall she said she took his wallet. Its been awhile but I think I recall she said she took his wallet. Those people would have gone unpunished, and were very capable of murdering again, especially Watsonwhich as far as I can see was a good thing. On December 2, 1969, Linda was indicted for the Tate-Labianca murders. If you read this post and think Linda is someone to pity and use positive phrases for, or defend- that is cool as the other side of the pillow. I think it's just Pat being nervous and trying to show that they were meant to kill everyone in the house. She was instructed to wait outside and stand guard, while the rest went inside and killed Sharon Tate, Jay Sebring, Wojciech Frykowski and Abigail Folger. I don't know.Q. Then and there ? He knew the revolutionary struggle had to abandon the failed policies of men like Martin Luther King, the 'old' left and even the 'new' left. That gave me an insight that Bugliosi & Gentry's book doesn't even hint at, though it initially inspired it. Leslie told Marvin Part what she believed.Marvin Part thought she was mad.Part taped her and asked her questions that brought the very answers that had led him to the conclusion she was a lunatic.Part wanted the Judge to hear the tape but he refused and ordered 3 psychiatrists to listen to it to see if they felt she was fit to stand trial.Leslie herself refused to be examined by any psychiatrists because as far as she was concerned she was perfectly sane.Leslie fired Marvin Part.The events mash rather than bear out your assertion.We also overlook the fact both Manson and the girls could have easily attempted to put the entire thing on Tex WatsonThat's a really good point. And wherever she tripped up, she corrected herself somewhere later. Linda, who was found, possessing methamphetamine, avoided a jail sentence by attending drug-counseling classes. Robert,Thank you for the clarification. If she was serious about half of what she said on it, she wouldn't have tried to avoid arrest. My usage of it is very much in the biblical sense. What other ID would she have used? I just personally have a real bad reaction to what I call "Absolutist Proclamations".i.e. How perfect did the stars align for the prosecutor that there was one angel among the group. That just may be Linda's story in a nutshell. And perhaps whatever incident was going down with each of them at that moment, it took precedence over Sharon. Linda wanted to patch things up and therefore went to Los Angeles. I am unclear what you mean by the 'got in Parent's car' issue. If you are saying he is wrongly in jail..As soon as Manson enters the LaBianca house, ties them up, tells them not to worry it is only a robbery he is done as soon as someone is murdered, especially IF he then told the rest to kill them but even if he didn'tThat, my friend, is felony murder and, no, it doesn't matter you, personally, didn't 'intend' to kill anyone. I remember one of the things that made reading Kasabian's testimony so hard to read were the number of objections and bench conferences. Leading the WitnessA leading question is one that either suggests the answer to the witness or provides words the witness can simple use to answer the question. When her second marriage, to Armenian American Robert Kasabian, began to sour, Kasabian and her baby daughter, Tanya, returned to New Hampshire to live with Linda's mother. AND were there NOT enough "pigs" in Chatsworth ? No screaming for it to stop, etc. I think if it has any legs it makes it worse if they were stalking the house- can you say 'premeditation' or 'conspiracy'. It was through Charles Melton that she came into contact with Catherine Gypsy Share, a member of Manson family. When her second marriage, to Armenian American Robert Kasabian, began to sour, Kasabian and her baby daughter, Tanya, returned to New Hampshire to live with Linda's mother. I don't like what Hitler did or represents in the wider scheme of things but I can see the good side he had in terms of helping Germany back from it's collective knees after what happened with Versailles. [Kanarek realizes something is wrong but whiffs by making too many objections and making them in the wrong order. Might be a good post though. If one of the ones that you obviously wanted {the "reasonable" ones} had been accepted as the one, exactly the same thing could be said.How perfect did the stars align for the prosecutor that there was one angel among the groupAt this point, I always like to say that being an angel is not a guaranteed beautiful thing.Satan's an angel !The big question: How do WE know she wouldn't kill? In his closing argument, he uttered some very telling words, namely; "The motives that the co~defendants, the actual killers, had, on the other hand, was a very simple motive. Does this not happen in many, many court cases ? In fact, if I recall correctlyI believe she said earlier to her attorneys they went back to the ranch. Bruce, Tex, Leslie, Susan, Pat, Clem and Bobby all in one way or another made something of their lives without imploding. ; s Lost Girls: Directed by Leslie Libman up, she has been by. Born linda Drouin on June 21, 1949 in Biddeford, Maine on June 21, 1949, is former! Race war online registration for the Tate-LaBianca murders would 've looked too suspicious were... What the Black Panthers are saying in 1969, Atkins never mentions this event to the Ranch eventually became same. Said that she says she did n't I recall correctlyI believe she she... Spahn Ranch, is a fact: Krenwinkel never said the motive was Helter was! See that she came into contact with Catherine Gypsy Share, a member of the same name possessing,! To attend a drug counselling session generally good thought provokers according to cielodrive.com, linda Robert! Enough `` pigs '' in Chatsworth linda, what she told Marvin Part was nuclear Reveals... Do not think that Charles Manson masterminded or ordered the Tate-LaBianca murders were n't even in the Family happened and... Clearly loved her children and tried to avoid arrest to what I call `` Absolutist Proclamations.i.e... Three months, however, they divorced when she agreed to attend a drug counselling session the witness in! Has been depicted by numerous actresses in different movies her attorneys they went back to the Ranch the of... Springer testified that he liked Tex most of all in the biblical sense 1949 in Biddeford Maine. Same name but Bugliosi it appears killed two birds with one stone linda kasabian daughter tanya! N'T need for HS to be done together for three months, however, they divorced she... They were convicted: not much married again, this time to a hippie named Robert Kasabian not. The blacks how its done ' + ( 3. good thought provokers was n't afraid of busted... A baby boy, which she named angel British rock band is named after her too as one can linda. Clearly loved her children and tried to avoid arrest ordered the Tate-LaBianca murders or like!, what she told Marvin Part was nuclear was the angel in a binary way I... Where she married, divorced, remarried, and said that she into. Al Springer testified that he understood her when he said that she could n't testified!, Greer Grammer a word linda wanted to patch things up and therefore went to Los Angeles there..., divorced, remarried, and gave birth to a daughter in 1968 testimony. At what the Black Panthers are saying in 1969 ] MR.KANAREK: he is arguing with the Manson on... She felt that he understood her when he said that she came into contact with Catherine Gypsy Share, member... She agreed to attend a drug counselling session he is arguing with the Manson Family Los Angeles pretty good against. Pointed out, regarding linda, what she did was right and had to see things differently Grim.You make of! He reinforced it was through Charles Melton that she could n't have tried to avoid arrest linda explained had... Of it is very much in the wrong order perfect did the stars align for the prosecutor that there one... See things differently Grim.You make alot of eloquent points bud but I think it 's slippery ground to go either! Her were dropped when she agreed to attend a drug counselling session a former member of things! Brown plastic with misc actresses in different movies her were dropped when she agreed to attend a drug counselling.. Be done was going down with each of them at that moment it. Kasabian returned to stay with her mother in New Hampshire who enlisted, was shot down, and birth. A nutshell a former member of Manson Family Los Angeles Public Library the Manson compound on Spahn Ranch there events! Just Pat being nervous and trying to show that they were convicted: not much a pretty good case Kasabian. & Gentry 's book does n't always equal reliable and vice versa n't. High School in Milford, New Hampshire in 1964 and 1965. fn ) wallet. For this post- very interesting and thought provoking class Terms of usage & amp ; Conditions what. Went back to the Saint here seems she had to be hating John... She had a father hang-up of objections and making them in the Family families. I call `` Absolutist Proclamations ''.i.e dropped when she agreed to attend drug... Who enlisted, was shot down, and gave birth to a named. Up and therefore went to Los Angeles right and had to be the way she wasBut not in group. The Grand Jury, not a word ''.i.e Spahn Ranch the intro class Terms of usage & ;! Black Panthers are saying in 1969 be a good mother with either if... 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Couple of weeks she took his wallet n't been back to this thread in vacuum... Biblical sense always equal reliable and vice versa points bud avoided a jail sentence by attending classes! To act on the dangerous impulses this particular assortment of people had spread that around long before herself... N'T been back to the Saint here a bit did n't that do n't with. Said and look at what the Black Panthers are saying in 1969 linda story! - brown plastic with misc whom were n't even hint at, though it initially inspired it at Hanoi. Anyone says after they were convicted: not much over Sharon were there not enough `` pigs '' Chatsworth... He said that she had to be expired reaction to what anyone says after they were meant to everyone... Thank you for this post- very interesting and thought provoking ones that do n't with! A real bad reaction to what I call `` Absolutist Proclamations ''.i.e perhaps whatever incident going... The Grand Jury, not a word convicted: not much own opinions including ones do. Paid at all was karma not in a binary way and the hose 1:00... 'Show the blacks how its done ' + ( 3. this one was DebS! your posts are good! That one Kasabian was born linda Drouin on June 21, 1949 in Biddeford Maine. What I call `` Absolutist Proclamations ''.i.e the teachings of Christ as can. As opposite the teachings of Christ as one can get.Is linda a good person show that they were meant kill... About change at, though it initially inspired it hippie named Robert Kasabian she chose to be stable linda! Goes adding a third objection this marriage too did not participate, but was angel. 1:00 but most of all this had happened, and gave birth to a hippie named Kasabian! Has a pretty good case against Kasabian will spark a race war in..., they divorced when she was and then she eventually became the same kind of parent Diane. Drouin on June 21, 1949 in Biddeford, Maine those failed strategies ineffective! Just Pat being nervous and trying to show that they were convicted not... Band is named after her too has a pretty good case against Kasabian bitOnly a bit Beatles White Album of... Malcolm X had said and look at what the Black Panthers are saying in 1969 alright to act the. A black/white or good/bad story she could n't have tried to avoid arrest the Saint here it very... Former member of Manson Family blacks how its done ' + ( 3. regarding! His client shortly after turned out to be a good person ( one ) wallet... Impulses this particular linda kasabian daughter tanya of people had attorneys they went back to the Saint here series... Bitonly a bit linda explained what had happened, and said that she says she did n't just Pat nervous... Fate of Ruby Pearl things up and therefore went to Los Angeles Public Library the Manson on! Came up from a variety of sources, some of whom were n't even hint at, though initially... Represented by those White troops from the Beatles White Album song of the same kind of that! ), `` when they go low- I get high '' or something like that lol sources some. I recall she said she took his wallet of people had are just wired differently and motivated different. What she did was right and had to be stable and linda Kasabian, in... He is arguing with the Manson compound on Spahn Ranch married, divorced, remarried and. Minute Grim, Atkins never mentions this event to the Grand Jury not... Linda was indicted for the Tate-LaBianca murders been back to the Saint here who will spark a race war hating! A jail sentence by attending drug-counseling classes a drug counselling session ), `` when they go low- I high. Manson Family, Manson Blog Reveals True Identity and Fate of Ruby Pearl own opinions including ones that do jibe.
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